Talk:℃-ute/@comment-181.209.246.186-20160624071149/@comment-190.56.253.214-20160722192740

Thanks for replying, I think your insights one the subject are interesting. I'll answer to what you said (I'll try to keep it as short as possible or else this is gonna look like SPAM and we don't wanna bother anyone).

"Berryz started as the cool kids with their 1st single.Then had typical kid-like songs... Piriri to Ikou and Fighting... something nobody liked. They weren´t seen as Idols at the beginning due to their young age and didn´t sell to well back in the days... so ... fighting something stayed their worst selling single for obvious reasons.

''Then these kids started to be taken seriously with singing about love and things they for sure didn´t yet understand and created HITS rly, cool berryz and romantic berryz worked great. "''

Well, while Piriri to Yukou!, Fighting Pose and Happiness Koufuku Kangei certainly have that "childish" sound to them, technically two of them are love songs (Fighting Pose and Happiness KK). I can understand that they're one of the lowest selling Berryz singles, because at the time the girls were just starting and were pretty unknown. But also, while westerners might see those songs as only "kid" songs, the japanese love cute things, and those singles certainly are cute; they're pretty much like °C-ute's Ookina Ai de Motenashite, Sakura Chirari and Meguru Koi no Kisetsu yet those singles (with the probable exception of Ookina, because we don't know how much it sold) sold better. The reason why I think they worked harder than °C-ute is that they improved their sales little by little while °C-ute started with good sales. Sakura Chirari, Meguru Koi no Kisetsu and a bunch sold better than every Berryz single until Tsukiatteru no ni Kataomoi! Now, who remembers Meguru Koi no Kisetsu anyway? Then, who remembers pieces like Piriri to Yukou!, Koi no Jubaku, Special Generation, 21ji Made no Cinderella, Gag 100kaibun Aishite Kudasai... I could go on. That's where I don't get the japanese buyers. Plus, yeah, Berryz Koubou might have gotten "everything" in that they didn't have to go through the indies but °C-ute has never seen (and never will see) their sales drop below 20k, with the exception of Sekaiichi HAPPY Na Onna no Ko (weird, since it's not their worst song at all but that's another business) and even then, that one sold close to 20k... °C-ute seems to have only had problems with their debut date (not even the loss of members affected them in the industry, really, maybe personally but that doesn't matter in this discussion), and if you think about it, °C-ute debuting later wasn't bad at all, because if they had debuted with Berryz, we'd have had to see babies such as little Mai and Chisato trying to be idols... Yeah, kinda laughable. It was for the best, really.

"Starting with the cover song Dschinghis Khan it got more crazy and DK as being not a double A-Side and still selling this amazingly well is for me definitely the obviously best selling. It didn´t need another song. Or promo. It made Berryz popular. They were breaking out and at the high of their career. "

Yeah, high in quality of singles and such things, but even then, they didn't sold amazingly (they had good sales, but now seeing °C-ute's 70k...).

"But after Inazuma Eleven... they had no clue what to do with Berryz... obviously... they tried to be sexy (lmao, Berryz and sexy) with Ai no Dangan... cutesy in a cool way with "be genki nazeba naru" ... Heroine ni naru ka was just... a weird way of being cool, compared with Dakishimete Dakishimete for example... and then they were hitting and missing rly hard in a clusterf.... of all previous Singles over and over again until the very end. "

I agree here, the "sexy" concept they tried with Berryz was the worst and almost ruined them! I only liked Aa, Yo Ga Akeru, personally don't like Rock E., hated Ai no Dangan, Sayonara Usotsuki Watashi was OK, WANT! was a good song but the terrible outfits they gave the girls don't match the vibrant colors of the "rotating room"and trying to make the girls act sexy on that PV was a terrible mistake Golden Chinatown was a great song musically speaking but as I mentioned earlier, it has a terrible PV, the girls look depressed and to top it off, they asked the girls not to smile! I mean... Damn the directors, that one should have been an Album song if they were going to be that cheap. Be Genki (Naseba Naru!) was a good song and had a good PV but the lyrics... Oh, Tsunku added some weird stuff to those lyrics and that's probably why the sales dropped so hard on that (and the stupid superhero capes).

I don't know if it's just me but you sound like you're implying that Heroine ni Narou Ka! wasn't an AMAZING single; yeah, Dakishimete Dakishimete was great but Heroine ni Narou Ka! was too, and even a little better. It wasn't weird, it was really cool, one of their best singles (song, MV, choreography...).

And while I agree that the stupid sexy concept was a miss, their other singles weren't bad at all! They were as good as their previous material for the most part (cha cha SING, Asian Celebration and everything that I haven't mentioned ws bad in the two paragraphs above... So I don't know why they didn't escalated to 50k at least since cha cha SING (and Heroine). Come on, what was so great about Kimi wa Jitensha? It was just a generic (and boring in my unpopular opinion) ballad with a weird and cheesy PV (sorry girls, but it's quite true), it even sold better than Kono Machi! (that's what I call a great ballad!). So yeah, the sexy concept worked better with °C-ute (though I personally don't like any sexy concept, be it from whatever group, I'm no man or lesbian to gush over girls like that, I prefer cool or cute concepts). My point is, that I would have expected singles like Heroine ni Narou Ka!, cha cha SING, Motto Zutto/Rock E, Asian Celebration, Otona na no yo!/1oku 3zenman and Ai wa itsumo/Futsuu Idol 10nen to catch up with what °C-ute had been doing (55+/60k at least). That and that damned UFA to give a little more budget to some singles. Or just the staff being more creative! You don't need money to do something creative, but noo... they had to be as formulaic as they could.

"They all seemed to get less and less energetic and especially during Golden China Town something seemed to be obviously wrong and they didn´t care anymore, it was getting worse with time, Maasa gained more weight than ever before, Risako was getting even shier and everybody else who performed their songs seemed to be much better in comparison. Even in older concerts they were in better sync all the way - expression, dance and singing-wise with almost no mistakes back in the days and now full of mistakes and boredom, a big mess ... first I thought it was the age... but no... they even told us by themselves that around Golden China Town when C-ute in a total was rising and getting Budoukan they thought "what about us?" and in the end decided to disband.. oh I mean being temporary in hiatus."

Now, how come "everybody else performing their songs were much better in comparison", no one's better than Berryz performing their songs, please link me or give me any reference to any performance from whoever that will make my jaw drop and confirm what you said... 'Cause Berryz performances were pretty great until the very end (everyone, especially Maasa seemed much happier live too). How come they were full of mistakes? Really, I haven't seen them make mistakes like that in their most recent performances. Yea, obviously they weren't as energetic as before but their newest performances weren't boring or bad at all.

That said, they really said that? Link to the interview or something? I understand that they felt like that but even then, their performances were still good, great even.

"When I watched their last concert (live-stream) my bf was just asking me what I was watching and laughed immediately when he saw them on stage, saying "They all look like they rly want to be somewhere else". ...when I thought they were doing better than in the past few years before... so it was rly obvious for quite a lot of people, also at YT (reacting channels) and on several forums people mentioned it. "

Ok, I've not seen the entire concert to say for sure, but the few songs I've seen they performed on that one, they didn't looked like that. I wanto to see those reactions and those threads on forums

''In comparison with Berryz, C-ute seems to have a more bonded relationship. They lost a lot of members over the years and still, on their first Budoukan all 3 ex-members posted somewhere that they´ve all been together again after such a long time. It got more and more obvious that they all were still in contact (Kanna and Erika postet a bunch of stuff together before all of this, but still it wasn´t clear if they were still close to C-ute unlike Maiha who left Berryz rly early).''

Yeah, probably the °C-ute members are more close to each other (they even take baths together, Chisato is probably in love with Mai and whatnot) but I don't see what does have to do with sales. Plus, it isn't like Berryz hated each other, if you're gonna stay 11 years together, there's got to be some chemistry there and they still keep in touch. I read somewhere that Maiha did visit them for their 10th anniversary so yeah, maybe they didn't keep in touch for long after she graduated, but she only was with the group 1 year while Kanna and Erika were °C-ute members for like 4 years and she was almost always alone when you see the making of's of their MV's... That's very probably the reason she didn't keep in touch with them.

"C-ute increased, got more and more powerful, it was amazing. Their fight finally made sense. They just STARTED their career at this point, it turned all well for them and they inproved possibly more than they ever did in every aspect, while Berryz turned into a mess, vocally, visually, dance-like.

Berryz with a quite good start, a high and a sad ending - and C-ute with a poor start and amazing outcome." 

Yeah, °C-ute got more powerful but Berryz didn't turned into a mess, at least not vocally (their latest choreographies were OK, some were pretty good even but yeah, the choreographers got lazy or something and they didn't exploited the abilities the members had acquired over the years to its full extent), in fact, they were actually at their highest vocal point. Momoko and Miyabi have always been talented singers and they only improved over the years, Saki, Chinami and Maasa were in the middle and they also only improved; Risako was a terrible singer for a LOT of time but during Berryz' final years, she totally grew out of that (she still had some faults but she didn't broke your ears as often) and became quite deserving of her main singer position AT LAST. They were in that point in which no member was a bad singer, there were no filler members unlike with °C-ute (Mai and Saki... Especially Mai... Girls, you're cute but your singing... It has gotten better but you still look like filler members. I'm sorry). Visually? Yeah, they lost their sparkle in their last years BUT MOSTLY IT WAS ONLY IN THE SEXY CONCEPT-PVs (look at the girls being comfortable with what they're doing out of the sexy stuff, it's refreshing. Towa no Uta and Romance wo Katatte come to mind).

"Their group climate wasn´t optimal and their wota... excuse me... are just rly amazingly delusional and mean. Srsly after they announced their leave suddenly at every event everything was full of wota more than ever before just to see them (oh yeah how unexpected - if you´d have followed them more properly it would´ve been just obvious and you all didn´t feel the selfish need to just see them once again because you didn´t so and thought they´d exist forever in your unrealistic mind...) - and still they didn´t manage to sell like ... "last - single - push - in - sales - 7 people - the whole - group - needs - 100.000 copies" -like as expected."

So you're saying it was also the wota's fault? Hmm... that's what I wanted to know, but I still wonder how much their promotion sucked in comparison to °C-ute and other groups... Yea, I wanted Towa no Uta/Romance wo Katatte to sell 90k or the million copies but I'm happy they've outsold everything °C-ute and other groups have done yet at least... Good for them.

"Their last single was the most boring and cheap s.... I´ve ever seen in the whole time BK existed. They knew it would sell well. Why investing in a group that is already over? Just make some emotional shots and it will work well... the only cool thing I can remember was these triangle-postpone-face shots and how boring everything else was, super bad. Yet best selling ofc."

That's not true, Romance wo Katatte is one of their prettiest music videos, Towa no Uta could have been better but it wasn't so bad as you're implying it is and it was adorable to see the girls have fun (Maasa especially). It isn't their "gawd, best single ever" but it wasn't the "cheapest" nor the "most boring" (that's Ai no Dangan, mind you).

"..and yes, I will always like Berryz more than C-ute, I always thought of C-ute as rather boring and Berryz as interesting due to their rly different looks and everything.. but I totally see that it was Berryz time to leave and C-utes time to begin. 

Yep, just my 2 cents now :)".

Agree, °C-ute's pretty good but Berryz was overall, a better group, more fun and all... That's why I scratch my head... I just want to know what else happened there. There must be something...

Thanks for your 2 cents. (And sorry to the wiki guys for such long comments, really, I'm sorry).